Belief - like the infamous free lunch - surely comes with strings attached, doesn't it? Everyone knows that, don't they. If someone comes with a gift, chances are that you'll find yourself paying for it, maybe not immediately, but in due course you'll wish you hadn't accepted what looked like it was free.
They use this kind of analogy on an Alpha course I've been on a while back, where the guy giving the talk hands out a book to someone, telling them its free. The reaction is usually one of caution and the suspicion that its a trap.
However the point that the speaker makes is that there really is no 'payment' for the free book, just like there really is no cost in accepting God's salvation, which comes with the price 'ready-paid' by Jesus. Its a wonderful thing, salvation, not least because its free! You don't have to struggle to somehow keep all within all the 'impossible' boundaries laid down by God, to 'earn' enough points to qualify for entry into heaven. God knew we'd never make the grade, that once sin entered the world we would be doomed without His help.
So, by His grace, He gave Himself up for us, to take the rap for all time. All so that "none need perish" and that anyone who calls in faith on His name should be forgiven. Be under no illusion, this stuff doesn't work according to 'our' rules, i.e. the everyday worldly laws of tit for tat, of revenge, of striving etc. Would you really expect God to behave like us?
There's a lot more in all this stuff, however I think - if you're curious at all - I'd recommend reading what Rev C H Spurgeon, famous evangelical preacher, has to say on it: All of Grace
It may puzzle some of you why I should post such things, when a blog is mostly just about fun and messing about, or commenting sarcastically on stupid new stories etc. I do it to get you thinking about your life, and because I also don't want you to find yourself on the wrong side of the tracks when this world is gone. I get nothing if one of you should believe, you get everything, its that simple.
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"the everyday worldly laws of tit for tat, of revenge, of striving etc. Would you really expect God to behave like us?"
Yes, actually I would if I were a christian... According to the bible god gave people capability to distinguish good from bad (i.e. sense of morality) so essentially now you are arguing that god has given us the incorrect understanding? Aren't you?
The ability to distinguish good from bad is indeed one demonstration of our divine origins, however my point about how we differ in behaviour from God was with respect to His supreme sacrifice on the cross. Man isn't generally quick to forgive fellow man, you'll have heard the expression "an eye for an eye..." which completely goes against the bible's teaching that revenge is for God alone to exact. Without conviction that God will ultimately judge fairly, we tend to put ourselves in the role, leading to revenge, disputes, grudges and all sorts of unresolved nastiness.
I guess the really interesting part is when you consider the rare situation that one human indeed does concede to give up their life for another. Such rare displays must have something useful to teach us about God and His nature to undertake precisely this sacrifice (just on an altogether larger scale however).
Ultimately grace is 'favour undeserved', and that's where I set my argument that God and mankind's behaviour do not match. Mostly we expect something in return if we give someone something, we don't commit ourselves at a cost without being pretty sure we'll get a return. God's grace is unlike this, it is given freely, no strings attached, and we can choose to receive or to pass on by.
"we don't commit ourselves at a cost without being pretty sure we'll get a return"
You have quite little faith in humanity... Statistics show that about 30% of the people donate their time to some charities in Ireland..
"an eye for an eye..." which completely goes against the bible's teaching"
Well.. you are not exactly right: Exodus 21:23-25
23 "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Leviticus 24:19-21
19 "If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him. 21 "Thus the one who kills an animal shall make it good, but the one who kills a man shall be put to death.
"Such rare displays must have something useful to teach us about God and His nature"
Or, considering that god is a made up concept not much different from unicorns, these not so rare occurrences of altruism can actually provided quite a good insight into how evolution works.
I'd suggest reading the R. Dawkin's Selfish Gene, which makes exactly the point that evolution works not by destroying the rest and not by survival of individual, but by survival of GENES that encode the best strategies of survival of the genes.
Marcus, I'd suggest taking some evening science classes, just to educate yourself... you will see how so many of your believes are pure nonsense, just because they oppose the stuff that we now is true.
Sorry for some spelling mistakes :)
i'll go on science classes if you go on an Alpha course :-)
Well.. No deal.. For one - I'm suggesting you to improve your knowledge, you are offering me a course that's supposed to dumb people down...
Second, I'm already aware of the things bible says, arguments that religious people use, and logical flaws in those arguments... :)
Then as you already quite familiar with the bible, clearly, I shall pray that God reveals the truth of it to you, in a totally personal and experiential way, that logic cannot deny.
Sure, go ahead, it's the best way to do nothing and still think that you are helping someone :)
Seriously though, it always amazed me how people pray for such minor things: asking for someone to lose a gift of reason, asking for some sports team to win, asking for some candidate to win the election and other minor things.
If I were to believe in the power of prayer, I would at least be praying for all the wars to end suddenly... or maybe to end up with earthquakes, maybe to end all the infant deaths, maybe to end all suffering...
But I guess you want to inform an omniscient being of me not believing in him... so i guess he'd be thankful for the info if he existed...
Sorry Marcus, I hope you do not feel too offended by my comments. I know that you are a smart, descent and, in non-religious situations, rational person.
In previous posts I definitely was not implying anything about your thinking outside of the religion sphere.
Thank you Linas, although I didn't take offence and it wouldn't change my view about praying for you.
:-)
Hope you have a wonderful Xmas!
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